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If you wanted to build a turbo.

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threeflies
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If you wanted to build a turbo.

Postby threeflies » Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:35 pm

I'm thinking probably lots of menders would like to add a turbo to their car but like me, have no Idea what they need. Very easy to go to a garage and get one put in , but I was thinking, wouldn't a shopping list be a good Idea ?

Is there a Turbo specialist in the house that could put pen to paper and list an ebay shopping list for the likes of me and others , I like the Idea of collecting the bits for my local guys to finally fit.

Sound like a plan ? :-D :handgestures-thumbup:
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Re: If you wanted to build a turbo.

Postby Mazda Mender » Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:08 pm

We can sort that out i think.
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Re: If you wanted to build a turbo.

Postby nedski » Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:45 pm

I have a turbo and I still have a shopping list. :-D
There are lots of directions to take and decisions to be made. Some cars only have one way to add a turbo, an mx5 has literally dozens of combinations of ways to do the job.

So I would have a decision list before a shopping list.

How much desired hp

Which -
Turbo
Manifold
exhaust
Dedicated ECU ,piggy back or standard with rising rate fuel pressure regulator etc
Injectors
Engine upgrades if high hp
Clutch if over 200 bhp
Intercooler
Plus lots more.

It takes quite a bit of homework. If you can source some parts cheaply before you start then that would of course influence which direction you take.
I'm sure others can add information for you :handgestures-thumbup:
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Re: If you wanted to build a turbo.

Postby Lazza » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:08 am

The shopping list would be very similar with a supercharger. The thing you would always consider up front is what budget you have available and what level you are aiming for.
As a rule of thumb, always consider this:

Cheap. Powerful. Reliable.
You can choose only 2 of the above.

i.e. if you want cheap and powerful it won't be reliable. If you want reliable and powerful it won't be cheap. If you want cheap and reliable it won't be powerful... of course, cheap is a relative thing, as is powerful.

In mine I have:

MP62 supercharger - Bought as the old BRP R2 kit which also includes *.
* Track Dog Racing intercooler.
* 105mm crack pulley.
* JR Powercard.
I also had an wide band O2 sensor and AFR gauge fitted.

I already had a Racing Beat Power Pulse Dual exhaust back box fitted.

That gave it a reliable 215bhp. To add to the reliability I added a J&S knock sensor which automatically retards timing when it detects the onset of knock.

Powercard was later replaced with eManage Blue piggyback ecu to improve control of timing & fuelling. MAP sensor from an Impreza fitted.
Injectors were replaced with 320cc Supra injectors.
120mm crank pulley fitted.

Replaced exhaust midpipe & cat with 2.5" Larini Sport pipes.

Injectors later replaced with 350cc injectors from P5. Power now up to 226bhp.

EMB, J&S and 350cc injectors replaced with:
Adaptronic e420 stand-alone ecu, 550cc injectors, air-intake temp sensor, 3-bar MAP sensor.

Mapped professionally so it now had 242.9bhp

I could have saved a lot of money by just going for the full power option from the start BUT half of the fun has been in the evolution from basic kit to what I have now.

And it isn't finished!!! I'd like to fit a bigger crank pulley, probably something like 140mm and get it properly tuned by EFI. I'd estimate that it should make somewhere in the region of 255bhp but a fair chunk more torque.
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Re: If you wanted to build a turbo.

Postby Lazza » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:22 am

I should add that, while both Turbo and Superchargers are forms of forced induction (FI) and are similar in terms of what they do, they are very different in how they do it.
A turbo is basically and exhaust driven fan that causes pressure in the induction pipes which in turn cause a larger volume of air into the combustion chamber. As it's driven by the exhaust, a turbo setup will benefit a lot from a free-flowing exhaust that will help the turbo spin up and hence produce pressure quicker and earlier in the rev range. The faster you can spin the turbo (to a point - they have their limts i.e. a small turbo will spin up quicker but can produce less ultimate boost whereas a bigger turbo will create more ultimate boost but will take more time to spin up) the more "boost" it will create and the more power it will produce.

With a supercharger boost is not viewed the same way and air-flow is the most important thing. An SC is generally a positive displacement pump. An MP62 will push 62cc of air for each full revolution. At any given revs it will push a fixed amount of air. Therefore, "boost" pressure is actually back-pressure i.e. a bottleneck. Changes to the exhaust system will not change the SCs ability to pump air at all. However, if you can fit a freer flowing exhaust the air will pass through the head easier and power will increase. In this case though, boost pressure will be seen to drop.

On mine, it makes almost 243bhp but only shows around 8psi of boost. For a turbo to make that much power it would probably need to show 15psi or more.

So in both cases, making the air flow through the engine easier has very positive effects but the way this manifests itself is different.
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Re: If you wanted to build a turbo.

Postby al_p » Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:10 pm

Cheap. Powerful. Reliable.
You can choose only 2 of the above.

^best quote ive heard there lazza^

from my 1st mx5 i had more of a cheap slightly reliable build at 200bhp this consisted of prices are estimate

garrett turbo £300-800 depending on age
greddy manifold ( had alot of issues with cracking but later learned a home made manifold out of weld elbows is best) home made £150
320cc supra injectors the oe injectors max out at 150 ish bhp £60
greddy e-manage ecu piggyback (due to the price of ecu's falling it could be just as easy to buy a standalone one these days) £180-500+
wideband innovate lc-1 sensor £125 but a needed item
2 bar map sensor £30
exhaust system £340 (could just buy a downpipe and avoid silly price , although not really advisable )
intercooler £240

then just odd bits like oil lines etc... £100 ish

if your not installing yourself labour £35478563475647385367845.65


i had done a few more things but this list was the basic parts

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